Report of the 5th meeting of ISO/CASCO WG 21 (Part 2 Of 17021)

REPORT OF THE 5th MEETING OF ISO/CASCO WG 21 (Part 2 of 17021)

Third Party Auditing of Management Systems

Held on 2008-01-14/18 in Geneva, at the ISO Central Secretariat

ITEM 1 & 2 – OPENING OF THE MEETING & INTRODUCTIONS

1. The Co-Convenors opened the meeting and the participants introduced themselves. The participants at the meeting and the apologies that were received are recorded in Annex 1 to this report.

ITEM 3 – ADOPTION OF THE AGENDA

2. CASCO WG21-P2/17 was adopted as the agenda for the meeting.

ITEM 4 – ADOPTION OF THE 4th MEETING REPORT

3. The report of the 4th meeting (CASCO WG21-P2/14) was reviewed and confirmed.

ITEM 5 – WG SUBGROUPS TO ADDRESS COMMENTS

4. It was decided to split the WG in 3 subgroups to address the comments received on WD2 17021-2. Group 1 led by Mr. Dalrymple reviewed comments on the Introduction and sections 1 to 5, group 2 led by Mr. Muir reviewed comments on section 6 and group 3 led by Mr. Dougherty reviewed comments on section 7. Each group added observations to the comments (CASCO WG21-P216 Rev1) and marked-up WD2 17021-2 accordingly. The composition of the subgroups is detailed in Annex 2.

ITEM 6 – REVIEW OF COMMENTS ON WD2 ISO/IEC 17021-2

5. The WG re-convened at a later stage to review the work of each subgroup. The main changes are captured below:

Title

6. The word "certification" was added to the title to read "Conformity assessment – Requirements for third-party certification auditing of management systems".

Introduction

7. It was agreed to mention ISO 19011 and make sure that the WG be updated on development of its revision. This was captured with the following sentence: "As this present International Standard interfaces with ISO/IEC 17021-Part 1, when it is finally published Part 1 will require some amendments to ensure consistency between both documents, for example to replace reference to ISO 19011. It is conceivable that the first reasonable opportunity, Parts 1 and 2 could be merged into a single document."

8. The flowchart in the Introduction was considered redundant and was replaced with the flowchart "Audit and certification processes" in section 5, which was simplified.

Terms and definitions

9. Where necessary, references to clauses in ISO 9000:2005 were made.

10. In 3.17, definition of competence, the word "demonstrated" was removed.

Section 4 - Principles

11. No changes were made.

Section 5

12. The title was changed from "General requirements" to "Establishing the audit programme".

13. Subclauses 5.8 and 5.9 were deleted. The requirement in 5.9 was already included in 17021-1.

Section 6

14. The title was modified from "Audit process requirements" to "Generic audit process requirements".

15. The concept of "opportunities for improvement" (OFIs) was discussed. Mr. Bransky noted that IATF was trying to eliminate this concept as it could lead to abuses. The WG agreed that OFIs were not requirements and were not hidden nonconformity. 6.1.13 was expanded accordingly.

Section 7

16. In 7.1 the title was modified from "Competence assessment process" to "Competence criteria determination process".

17. The title of 7.1.1 was modified from "Proficiency levels" to "Personal attributes" and reference to the "Levels of Cognition" from Bloom's Taxonomy was removed.

ITEM 7 – NEXT STEPS

18. The WG agreed that the document be launched for consultation (comments only) as a Committee Draft (ISO/IEC CD 17021-2) for a period of 5 months. Since the meeting, the consultation has been launched on February 12 with a closing date on July 12, 2008.

19. The Drafting Group will meet the last week of August to review the comments before the WG meeting in October.

ITEM 8 – ANY OTHER BUSINESS

20. No other business was discussed.

ITEM 9 –

...